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Engine swap

Troyl Join Date: Posts: 1

2002-09-19          42663

Is it possible to swap out the engine in an L 3450 for an bigger one say one out of an L 4200?

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Engine swap

JJT Join Date: Jun 1999 Posts: 93 Upstate NY, USA

2002-09-19          42669

For much less $, aggravation and grief a good diesel mechanic can soup up the existing engine. ....

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Engine swap

TomG Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley

2002-09-20          42686

No expertise here, but I believe the most common ‘soup-up' is turning up the fuel. The procedure usually is simply placing heavier weights on the governor. However, few people can do that for successfully themselves, and many mechanics might be reluctant to do so for other reasons.

However, some stripped down tractor models use the essentially same engines as more expensive models but have lower HP ratings (Maybe to steer people into bells 'n whistles' models). Essentially these engines are just de-tuned, but I don't know if governor weights would be the only difference. The fuel on such engines probably could be turned up, but the engine would run hotter and might need a bigger rad. One of the things a properly designed governor does is to make it hard for any load to over-heat the engine. I don’t imagine it would be great to have a plow a bit large for a tractor and have to plow a field while always keeping an eye on the temp gauge.
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Engine swap

Art White Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York   Pics

2002-09-28          43054

TOm just for your reference on diesels. Many can be adjusted up on fuel or torque with a screwdriver and small wrench. That is on the older ones, the newer ones will take different shim packeages added or removed from the pump. Some have a good leway of 100 plus horsepower gains, that is in hte bigger farm tractors and some you would be lucky to get 10 horsepower more. The newer pumps are harder to change and intentionally done to help keep the pollution down from us gear heads. Smoke isn't always power but a lot of people might think it is. ....

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Engine swap

JonB Join Date: Posts: 1

2002-09-28          43068

Tom, your post got me thinking so I checked out Deere's HP rating for its 2210, a 3 cyl Yanmar with 61 ci. Sounds identical to the 4100, using a 3 cyl Yanmar w/ 61 ci. Except the 2210 is rated at 23gross HP and the 4100 at 20 HP. The 2210 has 17.7 PTO HP w/ HST and the 4100 has 17 PTO HP with gears, 16 PTO HP with HST. So it seems like the same engine is set up to perform differently. ....

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Engine swap

DRankin Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada   Pics

2002-09-29          43079

Here is the difference. The 4100 makes its horsepower at a max RPM of 2600 or so. The 2210, like the Kubota BX series, spins at 3200 RPM's. I think the increased engine speed is used to partially compensate for the smaller wheels to keep the ground speeds in high range up to a reasonable figure.
I am also learning that running the HST at higher input speeds creates more heat and requires a synthetic or semi- syn oil to deal with the increase.
Kubota 's BX also has a fan mounted on the input driveshaft to blow air on the tranny cooling fins.
I suspect that Deere may have missed this or some other issue and that is why they announced the 2210 and then pulled it off the market to deal with problems that cropped up.
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Engine swap

TomG Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley

2002-09-29          43087

Art: thanks for the note. I meant to reply to one of your earlier comments that I think mentioned a vane type of injector pump. I hadn't heard of the design, but as always I'm interested such things.

The mechanism I understood for turning up the fuel is that heavier governor weights don't swing out as far at a given rpm to reduce fuel delivery, so they deliver more fuel per rpm. I guess that the reverse of the idea is that for a given load, a given rpm would be achieved by a lower throttle position. That idea is from a fairly detailed discussion on another board. I guess there are other ways of affecting fuel delivery as well--or maybe the other discussion was just wacky. The mechanism seems to make sense to me though.

Another wrinkly I heard about on an old Ford injector pump is that apparently the timing advances at higher rpm's--similar to spark ignitions. I haven't heard of anything similar on newer pumps.
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Engine swap

Art White Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York   Pics

2002-09-30          43103

Tom they have had that feature for years. The latest tractors have gone electronic on the pumps just like the trucks to help stop emissions where they change fuel loads to adjust to rpm, and load to make for a clean running tractor. Latest twists that they have is a variable load dispursed to keep the smoke down and power up. ....

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Engine swap

Peters Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 3034 Northern AL   Pics

2002-09-30          43127

Maybe we should get into burning new chips for increased HP like the trucks? I read you can gain 50 HP or 25% Hp on some pickup diesels. ....

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Engine swap

TomG Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley

2002-10-01          43145

Thanks again. I guess I'm aware that newer big diesels are turning into computers like everything else and farm tractors are following the trend.

I'm pretty sure my mid-80's compact doesn't vary the pump timing with rpm and was a bit surprised to find the feature on an older Ford farm tractor. I think most older farm tractor engines were intended to be run at nearly constant rpm's so I would guess that timing advance wouldn't be too important.

I do know that I get a puff of exhaust smoke when I add throttle and understand that I have a traditional governor. It crudely increases fuel delivery and lets the engine lug up to a higher rpm while puffing the excess fuel out as smoke until it comes up its new rpm. I don't know if compacts designed today work any differently.

I’ve also heard some pretty amazing claims about kits for increasing HP. I wonder if these things do so and also manage emissions. I have the sense that power and emission goals aren’t very compatible.
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